Doesn't Linux have a decent usenet reader?

[marc]

Hi,

About a year ago, I asked Debian users about usenet readers. The
selection that I'd tried were, frankly, rubbish compared to what I'd
been using on Windows for more than a decade.

Today, I tried again:

- Pan: terrible interface that *still* makes the 101 error of displaying
threading on subject - often you can't even see the subject, which is
bonkers - and it still doesn't allow locking articles against purging.
A-n-d b-o-y i-s i-t k-l-u-n-k-y. It's horrible.

- Knode: Just terrible - it's windows management is hideous. And it too
makes the 101 error of threading on subject. Worse, there is no tagging
of articles for download, and articles can't be protected from purging.

- Thunderbird: Oh dear

So, since another year has ticked by, I'll ask again:

Is there a Linux newsreader that approaches anything that Windows had
in the 90s?

:-) Yeah, I know I'm being inflammatory, but this single issue pains me
to the core.

[colo]

I've been reading Usenet in a strict GTK+-Environment with Sylpheed for
a few years. Check it out, you'll at least come to love it (or it's
bleeding-edge cousin, Sylpheed-Claws) as an e-mail reader. :)

[qamelian]

I guess it's a matter of taste. The only newsreader i ever liked on
Windows was Xnews. Other than that, Pan is my app of choice and I
consider it to be more than "decent".

[marc]

qamelian said...

Post by qamelian
I guess it's a matter of taste. The only newsreader i ever liked on
Windows was Xnews. Other than that, Pan is my app of choice and I
consider it to be more than "decent".

When I tried Pan last year - because there are claims floating around
that it is Gravity-like - the devs asked me for precise details of what
I believed it lacked. Being a tech author - with one hat - I obliged.
Seems to me that my input was firmly binned. Fair 'nuff.

Ugliness with Pan starts with displaying threading with the subject
field. This is, and always will be, silly. It's terribly
geek-"logical" - coz it's the subject that's threaded - but it's
completely the wrong field to use to display it, because it quickly goes
haywire.

Next, simply right-click an article when the article pane doesn't have
focus. Oh dear! A blank menu. Give it focus - it forces an article
download - and then it works. That's barking mad. Once downloaded, you
can't mark articles in any way. In fact, even when the article pane has
focus, right-clicking another article doesn't select that article, but
display the menu that applies to the previously selected article. This
is pants. It's really badly done.

I can see why. Pan takes the myopic view that the user is either online
or off-line, and when online it's going to download everything that;s
clicked. Oh dear.

And don't get me started on the filtering.

Pan is kind of close to being okay, but it misses key requirements by
the proverbial mile. And that's what's so frustrating about it. It's
almost very good, but the flaws are so bad that it's unusable, imo.

[Eric Hanchrow]

Just a data point: I've been using Gnus -- a news-and-mail reader
built into GNU Emacs -- for years, happily.

[David Abrahams]

Post by Eric Hanchrow
Just a data point: I've been using Gnus -- a news-and-mail reader
built into GNU Emacs -- for years,

Me too.

Post by Eric Hanchrow
happily.

...somewhat disgruntledly, in my case. It can do almost anything you
want, but Gnus is insanely difficult to learn if you just want to read
your mail and news. I'm going along with a half-*ssed understanding
of how it works and mostly getting it to work for me, but lots of
things about it are suboptimal. I guess it's time for me to make this
real: http://newsandmail.blogspot.com. Comments welcome :)

[Eric Hanchrow]

David> ... Gnus is insanely difficult to learn if you just want to
David> read your mail and news.

Well, sure :-)

I cobbled together a .gnus that works, mostly through trial and
error. I'm terrified of changing anything in it. Are you suggesting
that this isn't normal?

David> I'm going along with a half-*ssed understanding of how it
David> works

That's approximately one-quarter of an ass' worth more understanding
than I have. I envy you.

David> I guess it's time for me to make this real:
David> http://newsandmail.blogspot.com.

Good luck.

[David Abrahams]

Post by Eric Hanchrow
David> ... Gnus is insanely difficult to learn if you just want to
David> read your mail and news.
Well, sure :-)
I cobbled together a .gnus that works, mostly through trial and
error. I'm terrified of changing anything in it. Are you suggesting
that this isn't normal?

:-)

That actually brought a (physical, rather than textual) smile to my
face! Much asppreciated.

Post by Eric Hanchrow
David> I'm going along with a half-*ssed understanding of how it
David> works
That's approximately one-quarter of an ass' worth more understanding
than I have. I envy you.

Well, I may have overstated my ass-fraction in this case, frankly.

Post by Eric Hanchrow
David> http://newsandmail.blogspot.com.
Good luck.

Care to join me? It's just a conversation.

[Phil]

Just a thought but groups.google.com?

Post by David Abrahams

Post by Eric Hanchrow
David> ... Gnus is insanely difficult to learn if you just want to
David> read your mail and news.
Well, sure :-)
I cobbled together a .gnus that works, mostly through trial and
error. I'm terrified of changing anything in it. Are you suggesting
that this isn't normal?

:-)
That actually brought a (physical, rather than textual) smile to my
face! Much asppreciated.

Post by Eric Hanchrow
David> I'm going along with a half-*ssed understanding of how it
David> works
That's approximately one-quarter of an ass' worth more understanding
than I have. I envy you.

Well, I may have overstated my ass-fraction in this case, frankly.

Post by Eric Hanchrow
David> http://newsandmail.blogspot.com.
Good luck.

Care to join me? It's just a conversation.
--
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com
--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users

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[Eric Hanchrow]

David> Care to join me? It's just a conversation.

Well ... seriously, I'm such an Emacs bigot that I'm willing to put up
with gnus, simply because it runs in Emacs. That means a _lot_ to
me. I've tried a few others, including Thunderbird (which I thought
was just fine), but if it don't run in Emacs, it's just not useful to
me.

I haven't checked, but I'd guess you're not considering writing a new
Emacs news reader (and why would you?). So I'm probably not your
target audience.

[David Abrahams]

Post by Eric Hanchrow
David> Care to join me? It's just a conversation.
Well ... seriously, I'm such an Emacs bigot that I'm willing to put up
with gnus, simply because it runs in Emacs. That means a _lot_ to
me.

Me too.

Post by Eric Hanchrow
I've tried a few others, including Thunderbird (which I thought was
just fine), but if it don't run in Emacs, it's just not useful to
me.

I wouldn't go that far, but I'm pretty darned close. At least,
whatever it was would need to have the ability to integrate tightly
with emacs unless someone can convince me I don't really need
that... which would be hard.

Post by Eric Hanchrow
I haven't checked, but I'd guess you're not considering writing a
new Emacs news reader (and why would you?).

I do think of that from time to time.

[marc]

Eric Hanchrow said...

Post by Eric Hanchrow
Just a data point: I've been using Gnus -- a news-and-mail reader
built into GNU Emacs -- for years, happily.

:-)

I'm a gvim user. Shall we start on that? :-)

To be honest, I had a whirl at usenet on emacs, but it wasn't for me.
And anyway, one set of bizarre keystrokes is enough for anyone.

[Florian Diesch]

Post by marc
Eric Hanchrow said...

Post by Eric Hanchrow
Just a data point: I've been using Gnus -- a news-and-mail reader
built into GNU Emacs -- for years, happily.

:-)
I'm a gvim user. Shall we start on that? :-)

I'm sure you can configure Gnus to use gvim as editor ;-)



Florian

[marc]

Florian Diesch said...

Post by Florian Diesch

Post by marc
Eric Hanchrow said...

Post by Eric Hanchrow
Just a data point: I've been using Gnus -- a news-and-mail reader
built into GNU Emacs -- for years, happily.

:-)
I'm a gvim user. Shall we start on that? :-)

I'm sure you can configure Gnus to use gvim as editor ;-)

But how?

[Patrick Drechsler]

Post by marc
Florian Diesch said...

Post by Florian Diesch

Post by marc
Eric Hanchrow said...

Post by Eric Hanchrow
Just a data point: I've been using Gnus -- a news-and-mail reader
built into GNU Emacs -- for years, happily.

:-)
I'm a gvim user. Shall we start on that? :-)

I'm sure you can configure Gnus to use gvim as editor ;-)

But how?

I haven't used it myself, but viper-mode in Emacs is intended for
people used to "the other type of keybindings":

,----[ (info "(viper)Top") ]
| Viper
| *****
|
| We believe that one or more of the following statements are
| adequate descriptions of Viper:
|
| Viper Is a Package for Emacs Rebels;
| it is a VI Plan for Emacs Rescue
| and/or a venomous VI PERil.
|
| Technically speaking, Viper is a Vi emulation package for
| Emacs. It implements all Vi and Ex commands, occasionally
| improving on them and adding many new features. It gives the
| user the best of both worlds: Vi keystrokes for editing
| combined with the power of the Emacs environment.
|
| Viper emulates Vi at several levels, from the one that
| closely follows Vi conventions to the one that departs from
| many of them. It has many customizable options, which can be
| used to tailor Viper to the work habits of various users. This
| manual describes Viper, concentrating on the differences from
| Vi and new features of Viper.
`----

HTH

Patrick

[ruscook]

Marc does Gravity run under Wine? If so that would save the boot into
windows and you get the app/UI you want to run.

Evolution supposedly does news as well. I don't subscribe to any lists
any more so don't know how well. I assume if you don't mind evolutions
UI (which I don't, particularly the bleeding edge 2.7.91 version) then
this may also be a solution.

Post by marc
Is there a Linux newsreader that approaches anything that Windows had
in the 90s?
:-) Yeah, I know I'm being inflammatory, but this single issue pains me
to the core.
--
Best,
Marc
P.S. As my headers will show, I revert to Windows for Usenet and use
Gravity. Twice a day I boot into XP for my dose of Usenet updates,
because there is nothing that remotely touches Gravity in Linux. And no,
it doesn't run under Wine, but that's not a solution either.

Kind Regards Russell
==================
www.windsorcycles.com.au
sales at windsorcycles.com.au
ph. 02 4577 3209
bikes.no-ip.info
Linux user #369094
==================


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[Karl Goetz]

Post by ruscook
Marc does Gravity run under Wine? If so that would save the boot into
windows and you get the app/UI you want to run.

In his sig was this:

"... there is nothing that remotely touches Gravity in Linux. And no,
it doesn't run under Wine, ..."

So apparently not :|

Post by ruscook
Evolution supposedly does news as well. I don't subscribe to any lists
any more so don't know how well. I assume if you don't mind evolutions
UI (which I don't, particularly the bleeding edge 2.7.91 version) then
this may also be a solution.

Post by marc
Is there a Linux newsreader that approaches anything that Windows had
in the 90s?
:-) Yeah, I know I'm being inflammatory, but this single issue pains me
to the core.
--
Best,
Marc
P.S. As my headers will show, I revert to Windows for Usenet and use
Gravity. Twice a day I boot into XP for my dose of Usenet updates,
because there is nothing that remotely touches Gravity in Linux. And no,
it doesn't run under Wine, but that's not a solution either.

Kind Regards Russell
==================
www.windsorcycles.com.au
sales at windsorcycles.com.au
ph. 02 4577 3209
bikes.no-ip.info
Linux user #369094
==================

[marc]

ruscook said...

Post by ruscook
Marc does Gravity run under Wine? If so that would save the boot into
windows and you get the app/UI you want to run.

No it doesn't. Well, it gets so far then dies. And, well, I didn't go
much further. I've not tried it for a while, but I see no reason why
things would have changed. I don't really see this as a solution,
though.

What I'd like to see is a killer usenet reader for Linux. Currently, I'd
be happy with one that has basic + 1 features.

It's a very weird situation. I'm old enough to remember being awestruck
by tin. It seems things haven't moved on in a decade - excepting the GUI
bit. I spend a lot of time with usenet stuff, so I guess this it what
folk call a core app', for me.

[ruscook]

Post by marc
ruscook said...

Post by ruscook
Marc does Gravity run under Wine? If so that would save the boot into
windows and you get the app/UI you want to run.

No it doesn't. Well, it gets so far then dies. And, well, I didn't go
much further. I've not tried it for a while, but I see no reason why
things would have changed. I don't really see this as a solution,
though.
What I'd like to see is a killer usenet reader for Linux. Currently, I'd
be happy with one that has basic + 1 features.

Oh well, that's a pain. Did you try Evolution's usenet feature? I
haven't (don't use any newsfeeds) but I do like Evo as my mailer.

Good luck in your search.

Post by marc
It's a very weird situation. I'm old enough to remember being awestruck
by tin. It seems things haven't moved on in a decade - excepting the GUI
bit. I spend a lot of time with usenet stuff, so I guess this it what
folk call a core app', for me.

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean. "tin" as in the metal or an app?

Kind Regards Russell
==================
www.windsorcycles.com.au
sales at windsorcycles.com.au
ph. 02 4577 3209
bikes.no-ip.info
Linux user #369094
==================


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[Peter Garrett]

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 06:34:35 +1000

Post by ruscook

Post by marc
It's a very weird situation. I'm old enough to remember being awestruck
by tin. It seems things haven't moved on in a decade - excepting the GUI
bit. I spend a lot of time with usenet stuff, so I guess this it what
folk call a core app', for me.

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean. "tin" as in the metal or an app?

apt-cache show tin

:-)

Peter

[ruscook]

Ta!

Post by Peter Garrett
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 06:34:35 +1000

Post by ruscook

Post by marc
It's a very weird situation. I'm old enough to remember being awestruck
by tin. It seems things haven't moved on in a decade - excepting the GUI
bit. I spend a lot of time with usenet stuff, so I guess this it what
folk call a core app', for me.

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean. "tin" as in the metal or an app?

apt-cache show tin
:-)
Peter

Kind Regards Russell
==================
www.windsorcycles.com.au
sales at windsorcycles.com.au
ph. 02 4577 3209
bikes.no-ip.info
Linux user #369094
==================


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[Robert E. Butts]

Post by ruscook
Did you try Evolution's usenet feature?

I have and it looks fine for the text-only newsgroups. It might be
serviceable for binaries in a pinch, but not for everyday use. I
haven't done any of the advanced stuff like filters yet, and there are
some features I have no clue what they do (Convert to Task?). I'd like
to be able to do multiple identities for each server, and I'd like to be
able to search all message bodies for text. Those seem to be the only
features I miss right now. Thanks for this tip. I like Evolution, and
if it works as a Usenet news reader, I'll like it a lot more.

[marc]

Robert E. Butts said...

Post by marc

Post by ruscook
Did you try Evolution's usenet feature?

I'd like
to be able to do multiple identities for each server, and I'd like to be
able to search all message bodies for text. Those seem to be the only
features I miss right now.

These are very basic features, imo. Searching article bodies is
essential. However, if you can't protect messages from being purged,
then it has a fairly limited use in any case.

[Erik Christiansen]

Post by ruscook

Post by marc
ruscook said...
It's a very weird situation. I'm old enough to remember being awestruck
by tin. It seems things haven't moved on in a decade - excepting the GUI
bit. I spend a lot of time with usenet stuff, so I guess this it what
folk call a core app', for me.

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean. "tin" as in the metal or an app?

We don't have a newsfeed here, so it is some time since I tried
both tin and trn for news reading. If one doesn't suit, you might try
the other.

Erik

[Albert Wagner]

Post by marc
Hi,
About a year ago, I asked Debian users about usenet readers. The
selection that I'd tried were, frankly, rubbish compared to what I'd
been using on Windows for more than a decade.
- Pan: terrible interface that *still* makes the 101 error of displaying
threading on subject - often you can't even see the subject, which is
bonkers - and it still doesn't allow locking articles against purging.
A-n-d b-o-y i-s i-t k-l-u-n-k-y. It's horrible.
- Knode: Just terrible - it's windows management is hideous. And it too
makes the 101 error of threading on subject. Worse, there is no tagging
of articles for download, and articles can't be protected from purging.
- Thunderbird: Oh dear
Is there a Linux newsreader that approaches anything that Windows had
in the 90s?
:-) Yeah, I know I'm being inflammatory, but this single issue pains me
to the core.

I've used and liked all of the Linux apps that you dislike. And I hated
everything about Windows. Perhaps you should follow your bliss.

[marc]

Albert Wagner said...

Post by Albert Wagner

Post by marc
Hi,
About a year ago, I asked Debian users about usenet readers. The
selection that I'd tried were, frankly, rubbish compared to what I'd
been using on Windows for more than a decade.
- Pan: terrible interface that *still* makes the 101 error of displaying
threading on subject - often you can't even see the subject, which is
bonkers - and it still doesn't allow locking articles against purging.
A-n-d b-o-y i-s i-t k-l-u-n-k-y. It's horrible.
- Knode: Just terrible - it's windows management is hideous. And it too
makes the 101 error of threading on subject. Worse, there is no tagging
of articles for download, and articles can't be protected from purging.
- Thunderbird: Oh dear
Is there a Linux newsreader that approaches anything that Windows had
in the 90s?
:-) Yeah, I know I'm being inflammatory, but this single issue pains me
to the core.

I've used and liked all of the Linux apps that you dislike. And I hated
everything about Windows. Perhaps you should follow your bliss.

How do you give someone the bird in ASCII? Ah well, consider it done.

[Albert Wagner]

Post by marc
Albert Wagner said...

Post by Albert Wagner

Post by marc
Hi,
About a year ago, I asked Debian users about usenet readers. The
selection that I'd tried were, frankly, rubbish compared to what I'd
been using on Windows for more than a decade.
- Pan: terrible interface that *still* makes the 101 error of displaying
threading on subject - often you can't even see the subject, which is
bonkers - and it still doesn't allow locking articles against purging.
A-n-d b-o-y i-s i-t k-l-u-n-k-y. It's horrible.
- Knode: Just terrible - it's windows management is hideous. And it too
makes the 101 error of threading on subject. Worse, there is no tagging
of articles for download, and articles can't be protected from purging.
- Thunderbird: Oh dear
Is there a Linux newsreader that approaches anything that Windows had
in the 90s?
:-) Yeah, I know I'm being inflammatory, but this single issue pains me
to the core.

I've used and liked all of the Linux apps that you dislike. And I hated
everything about Windows. Perhaps you should follow your bliss.

How do you give someone the bird in ASCII? Ah well, consider it done.

How do you stick your bird up your ASCII? Ah well, consider it done.

[Brian Pack]

Post by marc
Hi,
About a year ago, I asked Debian users about usenet readers. The
selection that I'd tried were, frankly, rubbish compared to what I'd
been using on Windows for more than a decade.
- Pan: terrible interface that *still* makes the 101 error of displaying
threading on subject - often you can't even see the subject, which is
bonkers - and it still doesn't allow locking articles against purging.
A-n-d b-o-y i-s i-t k-l-u-n-k-y. It's horrible.
- Knode: Just terrible - it's windows management is hideous. And it too
makes the 101 error of threading on subject. Worse, there is no tagging
of articles for download, and articles can't be protected from purging.
- Thunderbird: Oh dear
Is there a Linux newsreader that approaches anything that Windows had
in the 90s?
:-) Yeah, I know I'm being inflammatory, but this single issue pains me
to the core.
--
Best,
Marc
P.S. As my headers will show, I revert to Windows for Usenet and use
Gravity. Twice a day I boot into XP for my dose of Usenet updates,
because there is nothing that remotely touches Gravity in Linux. And no,
it doesn't run under Wine, but that's not a solution either.

I take it you're trying the Ubuntu package directly from pan.rebelbase.com
rather than the repositories? Development is in full swing again, and a new
version is due soon. I like it for the easy scoring system and quick perusal
of pics. For split binaries or multi-part RAR files, it's absolutely hideous.

When I need to use one of the groups for files like that (i.e.
alt.binaries.multimedia.cartoons.looneytunes), I run News Rover in WINE. Just
to make sure it all works, I also have QuickPar and WinRAR installed to run
in WINE.
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[marc]

Brian Pack said...

Post by Brian Pack

Post by marc
About a year ago, I asked Debian users about usenet readers. The
selection that I'd tried were, frankly, rubbish compared to what I'd
been using on Windows for more than a decade.
- Pan: terrible interface that *still* makes the 101 error of displaying
threading on subject - often you can't even see the subject, which is
bonkers - and it still doesn't allow locking articles against purging.
A-n-d b-o-y i-s i-t k-l-u-n-k-y. It's horrible.
P.S. As my headers will show, I revert to Windows for Usenet and use
Gravity. Twice a day I boot into XP for my dose of Usenet updates,
because there is nothing that remotely touches Gravity in Linux. And no,
it doesn't run under Wine, but that's not a solution either.

I take it you're trying the Ubuntu package directly from pan.rebelbase.com
rather than the repositories?

Nope, I'm taking it from the Ubuntu repos.

Post by Brian Pack
Development is in full swing again, and a new
version is due soon. I like it for the easy scoring system and quick perusa
of pics. For split binaries or multi-part RAR files, it's absolutely hideous.

Ah! Were you suggesting that I take it from the above mentioned place?
No problem with that. I'm only interested, though, if the devs are
serious about improving the thing. I'm happy to partake.

And regarding binaries: no interest, my moans and whimpers are all
related to managing text - the basic stuff.

[Brian Pack]

Post by marc
Nope, I'm taking it from the Ubuntu repos.

Post by Brian Pack
Development is in full swing again, and a new
version is due soon. I like it for the easy scoring system and quick
perusa of pics. For split binaries or multi-part RAR files, it's
absolutely hideous.

Ah! Were you suggesting that I take it from the above mentioned place?
No problem with that. I'm only interested, though, if the devs are
serious about improving the thing. I'm happy to partake.
And regarding binaries: no interest, my moans and whimpers are all
related to managing text - the basic stuff.

Although they're mostly rewriting the entire thing from scratch, the basic
look and feel is about the same. It's up to you to decide if the new Pan is
same as the old Pan.
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[marc]

Brian Pack said...

Post by Brian Pack

Post by marc
Nope, I'm taking it from the Ubuntu repos.

Post by Brian Pack
Development is in full swing again, and a new
version is due soon. I like it for the easy scoring system and quick
perusa of pics. For split binaries or multi-part RAR files, it's
absolutely hideous.

Ah! Were you suggesting that I take it from the above mentioned place?
No problem with that. I'm only interested, though, if the devs are
serious about improving the thing. I'm happy to partake.
And regarding binaries: no interest, my moans and whimpers are all
related to managing text - the basic stuff.

Although they're mostly rewriting the entire thing from scratch, the basic
look and feel is about the same. It's up to you to decide if the new Pan is
same as the old Pan.

That looks like my best option. I'd be more than willing to help out.

Where do the Pan folk hangout?

[Brian Pack]

Post by marc
Brian Pack said...

Post by Brian Pack

Post by marc
Nope, I'm taking it from the Ubuntu repos.

Post by Brian Pack
Development is in full swing again, and a new
version is due soon. I like it for the easy scoring system and quick
perusa of pics. For split binaries or multi-part RAR files, it's
absolutely hideous.

Ah! Were you suggesting that I take it from the above mentioned place?
No problem with that. I'm only interested, though, if the devs are
serious about improving the thing. I'm happy to partake.
And regarding binaries: no interest, my moans and whimpers are all
related to managing text - the basic stuff.

Although they're mostly rewriting the entire thing from scratch, the
basic look and feel is about the same. It's up to you to decide if the
new Pan is same as the old Pan.

That looks like my best option. I'd be more than willing to help out.
Where do the Pan folk hangout?

Home page is http://pan.rebelbase.com. There you can find links to the latest
beta, plus the mailing list complete with archives.
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[marc]

Brian Pack said...

Post by Brian Pack

Post by marc
Brian Pack said...
Where do the Pan folk hangout?

Home page is http://pan.rebelbase.com. There you can find links to the
latest beta, plus the mailing list complete with archives.

Thanks. I see there's an Ubuntu package there:

http://pan.rebelbase.com/download/

that is far more recent than the repo package.

[Dan]

Post by marc
Brian Pack said...

Post by marc
Brian Pack said...
Where do the Pan folk hangout?

Home page is http://pan.rebelbase.com. There hyou can find links to the
latest beta, plus the mailing list complete with archives.

http://pan.rebelbase.com/download/
that is far more recent than the repo package.

Ever look at slrn? http://slrn.sourceforge.net/
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[marc]

Dan said...

Post by Dan

Post by marc
Brian Pack said...

Post by marc
Brian Pack said...
Where do the Pan folk hangout?

Home page is http://pan.rebelbase.com. There hyou can find links to the
latest beta, plus the mailing list complete with archives.

http://pan.rebelbase.com/download/
that is far more recent than the repo package.

Ever look at slrn? http://slrn.sourceforge.net/

Yup, but it requires a local news spool for off-line reading and that's
not an option.

[Daniel Goldsmith]

Post by marc
Dan said...

Post by Dan
Ever look at slrn? http://slrn.sourceforge.net/

Yup, but it requires a local news spool for off-line reading and that's
not an option.

slrnpull isn't an option? can I ask why? it just seems to me that
having a pull down feed of the usenet news is just a different
methodology, rather than the hit'n'miss of marking articles and
needing the newsreader to be running to accomplish anything.

2c.

Daniel

[Agent86]

I was a Gravity user also, from when it was -Anawave- Gravity, then got
the discounted license when the development went to Microplanet (who
were guys from Anawave anyway, IIRC). I liked it for great text
handling and light-to-medium binary downloading - never could get into
Free Agent enough to want to upgrade to Agent.



When my usage balance shifted to heavier binary usage, I tried NewsBin
for a while because Gravity would often choke on the mega-header
groups. I finally found a home with Xnews, since it was relatively
speedy and saved partial binaries in a format acceptable to par/par2 -
the recent (for Xnews) update in 2005 helped with stability. So it runs
decently on my Celeron 333/Win 98SE combo, which is more or less a
dedicated Usenet machine.



But now I'm dual-booting with Xubuntu Dapper on this machine, and I'd
like to find a good Linux Usenet app suitable for heavy binary usage -
yes I know Xnews runs under Wine, but I don't want to run Wine at all,
and it might be too much for the poor Celery 333's heart anyway.



I want to avoid Gnome or KDE dependencies, because I need to keep
things as light as possible on the old creaky warhorse, so Pan is out.
So is there a good GTK/GTK2 based Usenet app that won't choke on the
mega-header groups?

[JimD]

Post by Agent86
I want to avoid Gnome or KDE dependencies, because I need to keep
things as light as possible on the old creaky warhorse, so Pan is out.
So is there a good GTK/GTK2 based Usenet app that won't choke on the
mega-header groups?

You can try to compile pan your self and see if you can only enable GTK
support (I haven't tried).

I was using pan for a while, including the new beta version rewrite.
However I find that it still sucks up memory and news some work.

I use GrabIt (a windows only app) and run it under wine. GrabIt is very
lightweight and runs well under wine.

Give GrabIt a shot under wine, I think you will be surprised at how well
it runs and how little resources you need.

Jim

[marc]

Agent86 said...

Post by Agent86
I was a Gravity user also, from when it was -Anawave- Gravity, then got
the discounted license when the development went to Microplanet (who
were guys from Anawave anyway, IIRC). I liked it for great text
handling and light-to-medium binary downloading - never could get into
Free Agent enough to want to upgrade to Agent.

Same here, but I gave Agent a spin. It didn't last long, though. I was
reminded of this when they recently emailed me with an offer for the
Agent v3 update. I gave that a spin, but it's still a cranky old beast.

Post by Agent86
When my usage balance shifted to heavier binary usage, I tried NewsBin
for a while because Gravity would often choke on the mega-header
groups.
I finally found a home with Xnews, since it was relatively
speedy and saved partial binaries in a format acceptable to par/par2 -
the recent (for Xnews) update in 2005 helped with stability. So it runs
decently on my Celeron 333/Win 98SE combo, which is more or less a
dedicated Usenet machine.

I tried BNR. It's cranky and buggy, but fast and does the job.

Post by Agent86
But now I'm dual-booting with Xubuntu Dapper on this machine, and I'd
like to find a good Linux Usenet app suitable for heavy binary usage -
yes I know Xnews runs under Wine, but I don't want to run Wine at all,
and it might be too much for the poor Celery 333's heart anyway.
I want to avoid Gnome or KDE dependencies, because I need to keep
things as light as possible on the old creaky warhorse, so Pan is out.
So is there a good GTK/GTK2 based Usenet app that won't choke on the
mega-header groups?

KLibido seems to be the binary tool recommended. I don't do much binary
downloading, so I can't vouch for it under load. I'm following the Pan
list, and it seems that they have concentrated efforts on it as a binary
download tool, which is a shame, because it had the potential to be a
decent text news' reader - something it falls woefully short of
currently, imo. My understanding, however, is that Pan is single
threaded, which, if correct, will limit its throughput.

My solution is to run Windows under VMware! I guess this is less
desirable for you than using Wine, though.

[florian]

Post by marc
KLibido seems to be the binary tool recommended. I don't do much binary
downloading, so I can't vouch for it under load.

I use KLibido for my binary groups. It's quite good and I'm happy with
it. When opening a newsgroup with thousands of posts it needs some
time (10 seconds and more on my machine), the interface is frozen and
unusable then but I think the downloads are still running.
I don't know if it's a good choice for a older computers, I haven't
checked but I think it eats quite a bit of RAM. But worth a try

Greetings!

----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

[Alexander Skwar]

Post by marc
- Knode: Just terrible - it's windows management is hideous. And it too
makes the 101 error of threading on subject.

What do you mean?

Post by marc
Is there a Linux newsreader that approaches anything that Windows had
in the 90s?

What does Windows have?

Alexander Skwar

[marc]

Alexander Skwar said...

Post by Alexander Skwar

Post by marc
- Knode: Just terrible - it's windows management is hideous. And it too
makes the 101 error of threading on subject.

What do you mean?

The easiest way to get this across, I think,.is via a pic:

Loading Image...

See how the threading is communicated via the From field and how easy it
is to scan the Subjects? Simple as that, really.

(The From field is indented one notch because toggling the far left
header switches between a threaded and non-threaded display.)

That snap is my current view of this list/ng from gmane. It actually
shows quite well what I'm on about.

The binocs show watched threads - those that are downloaded
automatically, but it also provides a visual cue.

The red exclamation marks/points are "important" posts. Usually stuff
that I need to test or take action on or add to my local wiki/knowledge
base.

The blue shields are protected posts - those that cannot be purged by
anything ever, until unprotected.

Hope that helps.

Post by Alexander Skwar

Post by marc
Is there a Linux newsreader that approaches anything that Windows had
in the 90s?

What does Windows have?

I've already mentioned that I use Gravity. Some folk like Agent, which
also beats the pants off Linux offerings, although it doesn't float my
boat.

[Alexander Skwar]

Post by marc
Alexander Skwar said...

Post by Alexander Skwar

Post by marc
- Knode: Just terrible - it's windows management is hideous. And it too
makes the 101 error of threading on subject.

What do you mean?

http://www.auxbuss.com/temp/gravity.png
See how the threading is communicated via the From field and how easy it
is to scan the Subjects? Simple as that, really.

Okay. I don't get, what you meant to say, though. KNode can
order on subject and can do real threading.

Alexander Skwar

[John L Fjellstad]

Post by marc
http://www.auxbuss.com/temp/gravity.png
See how the threading is communicated via the From field and how easy it
is to scan the Subjects? Simple as that, really.

Basically how threading is done in gnus:
Loading Image...

[Jhair Tocancipa Triana]

Post by marc
Is there a Linux newsreader that approaches anything that Windows
had in the 90s?

gnus[1] is one of the most powerful newsreaders available for
GNU/Linux. It doesn't approaches anything that Windows has.

______________
[1] http://www.gnus.org/manual/gnus_toc.html

[Alexander Skwar]

Post by Jhair Tocancipa Triana

Post by marc
Is there a Linux newsreader that approaches anything that Windows
had in the 90s?

gnus[1] is one of the most powerful newsreaders available for
GNU/Linux. It doesn't approaches anything that Windows has.

Gnus is available for Windows as well ;)

Alexander Skwar

[Mirko Scurk]

Post by Alexander Skwar

Post by Jhair Tocancipa Triana

Post by marc
Is there a Linux newsreader that approaches anything that Windows
had in the 90s?

gnus[1] is one of the most powerful newsreaders available for
GNU/Linux. It doesn't approaches anything that Windows has.

Gnus is available for Windows as well ;)
Alexander Skwar
--
Wir sind alle Darsteller von Nebenrollen, ohne allzuviel vom St??ck zu
wissen.
-- Max Brod

I'm using Pan for over a year and had no problems. My requirements aren't
very high but I want automatic yenc decrypt. No thread problems - only
minor GUI glitches.

[marc]

Mirko Scurk said...

Post by Mirko Scurk

Post by Alexander Skwar

Post by Jhair Tocancipa Triana

Post by marc
Is there a Linux newsreader that approaches anything that Windows
had in the 90s?

gnus[1] is one of the most powerful newsreaders available for
GNU/Linux. It doesn't approaches anything that Windows has.

Gnus is available for Windows as well ;)
Alexander Skwar
--
Wir sind alle Darsteller von Nebenrollen, ohne allzuviel vom StAzck zu
wissen.
-- Max Brod

I'm using Pan for over a year and had no problems. My requirements aren't
very high but I want automatic yenc decrypt.

Crikey, doesn't it do that? I didn't get that far.

Post by Mirko Scurk
No thread problems - only minor GUI glitches.

See my other post on this - the one with the image link. It's a matter
of taste, I guess, but I think that once others see the way it can be
done, they might agree that it's an improvement over the status quo. But
hey, why not give us the choice?

[ac]

Post by marc
Hi,
About a year ago, I asked Debian users about usenet readers. The
selection that I'd tried were, frankly, rubbish compared to what I'd
been using on Windows for more than a decade.
- Pan: terrible interface that *still* makes the 101 error of displaying
threading on subject - often you can't even see the subject, which is
bonkers - and it still doesn't allow locking articles against purging.
A-n-d b-o-y i-s i-t k-l-u-n-k-y. It's horrible.
- Knode: Just terrible - it's windows management is hideous. And it too
makes the 101 error of threading on subject. Worse, there is no tagging
of articles for download, and articles can't be protected from purging.
- Thunderbird: Oh dear

I have no problem with thunderbird at all. It was really great to be
able to use it in windows for a while before I moved everything to
linux, and just copy the files into linux. TB is improving constantly.
It sounds like you are happy with windows anyway.

[Robert E. Butts]

Post by marc
P.S. As my headers will show, I revert to Windows for Usenet and use
Gravity. Twice a day I boot into XP for my dose of Usenet updates,
because there is nothing that remotely touches Gravity in Linux. And
no, it doesn't run under Wine, but that's not a solution either.

Fort? Agent runs fine under Wine, or did through release 1.83. I
haven't tried it with the modern releases.

If you like Gravity, you might like Sylpheed-Claws for news in Linux.

Using Pan has been problematic for me, too. What solved a lot of my
issues was keeping a backup Config.xml in the .Pan directory. When Pan
went berserk - which was about every day - I'd overwrite the borked
config with the backup, and all was well. Stay away from the later
releases (after 0.14 ..); they are not stable.

I use Pan for text groups, and Klibido for binaries. You might check
out the latter. It doesn't begin to compare with Agent for handling
binaries, but is modestly servicable ..

[marc]

Robert E. Butts said...

Post by marc
P.S. As my headers will show, I revert to Windows for Usenet and use
Gravity. Twice a day I boot into XP for my dose of Usenet updates,
because there is nothing that remotely touches Gravity in Linux. And
no, it doesn't run under Wine, but that's not a solution either.

Fort?? Agent runs fine under Wine, or did through release 1.83. I
haven't tried it with the modern releases.

I might have to give that whirl.

If you like Gravity, you might like Sylpheed-Claws for news in Linux.

No, I lurv Gravity :-) It's only now, when cutting the final strings
with Redmond, that I'm find how I can't live without it - at least a
very small number of features that seem to be totally absent in anything
on Linux.

Using Pan has been problematic for me, too. What solved a lot of my
issues was keeping a backup Config.xml in the .Pan directory. When Pan
went berserk - which was about every day - I'd overwrite the borked
config with the backup, and all was well. Stay away from the later
releases (after 0.14 ..); they are not stable.

It's 0.14.2.91 from the repos. I've no used it enough to comment on its
stability, to be honest. I don't think I could use it that much.

That's very unfair of me. I think that Pan is quite close to being very
good, but it misses the point in some critical areas.

I use Pan for text groups, and Klibido for binaries. You might check
out the latter. It doesn't begin to compare with Agent for handling
binaries, but is modestly servicable ..

Yup, I've tried Klibido. I don't do much usenet binary stuff, so it will
suffice. However, it is another one firmly planted in "always
connected" land, which makes it close to useless. And it is s-o s-l-o-w.

I guess that usenet software devs never leave their machines and have
never met those of use who travel, sit in airports and on planes and see
daylight. Heaven knows what they do seated at their screens connected
24/7 ;-)

[Peter Garrett]

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:54:44 +0100

Post by marc

Fort?? Agent runs fine under Wine, or did through release 1.83. I
haven't tried it with the modern releases.

I might have to give that whirl.

One thing that Gravity appears to choke on - or perhaps it's just a
configuration tweak - it mangled Robert's UTF-8 as above : )

Copy pasted for comparison in UTF-8:

"Fort? Agent runs fine under Wine, or did through release 1.83. I
haven't tried it with the modern releases. "

( I'm using Sylpheed, but as mail, not news )

In case that doesn't render as expected: e acute looks like a capital A
with a tilde above followed by an @ sign in the bit from your post, but
shows as expected ( e acute) in the pasted UTF-8 version from Robert's
post.

Sylpheed is set on "auto-detect" so possibly the problem is at my end, but
I rarely see this kind of weirdness even from Windows mailers, so I suspect
not ;-)

Peter

[marc]

Peter Garrett said...

Post by Peter Garrett
On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:54:44 +0100

Post by marc

Fort???? Agent runs fine under Wine, or did through release 1.83. I
haven't tried it with the modern releases.

I might have to give that whirl.

One thing that Gravity appears to choke on - or perhaps it's just a
configuration tweak - it mangled Robert's UTF-8 as above : )

Yup, it does. But Gravity was put on ice years ago. It was a commercial
product - I even have a licence - but was "handed over" rather than
withdrawn.

So yup, it's going to choke more recent stuff. Some development takes
place - they added yenc support a while back - but it's not a maintained
project as such.

This is all the more reason for the need for a decent alternative.

Do you want me to start listing *really* 101 stuff that *all* of the so-
called usenet clients can't do on Linux? It could take a while.

[Peter Garrett]

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 19:31:34 +0100

Post by marc
Peter Garrett said...

Post by Peter Garrett
On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:54:44 +0100

Post by marc

Fort???? Agent runs fine under Wine, or did through release 1.83. I
haven't tried it with the modern releases.

I might have to give that whirl.

One thing that Gravity appears to choke on - or perhaps it's just a
configuration tweak - it mangled Robert's UTF-8 as above : )

[snip]

Post by marc
So yup, it's going to choke more recent stuff. Some development takes
place - they added yenc support a while back - but it's not a maintained
project as such.
This is all the more reason for the need for a decent alternative.
Do you want me to start listing *really* 101 stuff that *all* of the so-
called usenet clients can't do on Linux? It could take a while.

Me personally? Well, no ;-)

My post was not intended as a defence of Linux news clients, or as a
belligerent act of criticism - I just thought it was possible that you
were unaware of the UTF-8 issue. So my intention was to be informative,
not bellicose ;-)

Peter

[Nancy Rudins]

Post by marc
Hi,
About a year ago, I asked Debian users about usenet readers. The
selection that I'd tried were, frankly, rubbish compared to what I'd
been using on Windows for more than a decade.
- Pan: terrible interface that *still* makes the 101 error of displaying
threading on subject - often you can't even see the subject, which is
bonkers - and it still doesn't allow locking articles against purging.
A-n-d b-o-y i-s i-t k-l-u-n-k-y. It's horrible.
- Knode: Just terrible - it's windows management is hideous. And it too
makes the 101 error of threading on subject. Worse, there is no tagging
of articles for download, and articles can't be protected from purging.
- Thunderbird: Oh dear
Is there a Linux newsreader that approaches anything that Windows had
in the 90s?
:-) Yeah, I know I'm being inflammatory, but this single issue pains me
to the core.
--
Best,
Marc

Hi Marc,

I used to use xrn on SunOs and Solaris systems. I see there's a
version available for linux now but I haven't tried it yet. I
will download it and have a go at it and let you know if it's
any good.

Kind regards,
Nancy



Nancy Rudins nrudins at ncsa.uiuc.edu
http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/~nrudins/

Take a sad song and make it better. (lennon/mccartney)

[marc]

Nancy Rudins said...

Post by Nancy Rudins

Post by marc
Hi,
About a year ago, I asked Debian users about usenet readers. The
selection that I'd tried were, frankly, rubbish compared to what I'd
been using on Windows for more than a decade.
- Pan: terrible interface that *still* makes the 101 error of displaying
threading on subject - often you can't even see the subject, which is
bonkers - and it still doesn't allow locking articles against purging.
A-n-d b-o-y i-s i-t k-l-u-n-k-y. It's horrible.
- Knode: Just terrible - it's windows management is hideous. And it too
makes the 101 error of threading on subject. Worse, there is no tagging
of articles for download, and articles can't be protected from purging.
- Thunderbird: Oh dear
Is there a Linux newsreader that approaches anything that Windows had
in the 90s?
:-) Yeah, I know I'm being inflammatory, but this single issue pains me
to the core.

I used to use xrn on SunOs and Solaris systems. I see there's a
version available for linux now but I haven't tried it yet. I
will download it and have a go at it and let you know if it's
any good.

Thanks for that, Nancy. I'll give it a spin.

Post by Nancy Rudins
Take a sad song and make it better. (lennon/mccartney)

Something Pane, KNode, TBird, et al should consider :-)

[Mariano Draghi]

Post by marc
Hi,
About a year ago, I asked Debian users about usenet readers. The
selection that I'd tried were, frankly, rubbish compared to what I'd
been using on Windows for more than a decade.

[snip]

Marc, have you tried XPN?
http://xpn.altervista.org/index-en.html

As fas as I know (or as far as apt-cache tells me...) there's no package
for Ubuntu. But one of the nice things about XPN is that you can drop it
in whatever directory you please, and run it from there. No need to
install.

It's written in Python. The GUI could get some love. It has some nice
features I couldn't find in PAN or Thunderbird, and it does the "keep
article" thing right (the threading is "standard" though, based on
subject and not like the one shown in the screenshots you shared)

Disclaimer: I'm not a usenet power-user nor had tried Gravity, so I
don't know if it will suite you... but maybe you can give it a try.

Regards,

[marc]

Mariano Draghi said...

Post by Mariano Draghi

Post by marc
Hi,
About a year ago, I asked Debian users about usenet readers. The
selection that I'd tried were, frankly, rubbish compared to what I'd
been using on Windows for more than a decade.

[snip]
Marc, have you tried XPN?
http://xpn.altervista.org/index-en.html

I've never heard of this one. It certainly looks pretty good.

Post by Mariano Draghi
As fas as I know (or as far as apt-cache tells me...) there's no package
for Ubuntu. But one of the nice things about XPN is that you can drop it
in whatever directory you please, and run it from there. No need to
install.

Nice.

Post by Mariano Draghi
It's written in Python. The GUI could get some love.

Hey, we're in Linuxland.

Post by Mariano Draghi
It has some nice
features I couldn't find in PAN or Thunderbird, and it does the "keep
article" thing right (the threading is "standard" though, based on
subject and not like the one shown in the screenshots you shared)

Hallelujah.

Post by Mariano Draghi
Disclaimer: I'm not a usenet power-user nor had tried Gravity, so I
don't know if it will suite you... but maybe you can give it a try.

:-) I'm no power user, but I'm staggered at how low the bar is in this
particular domain on Linux. Mind you, I use Opus 8 as a file manager on
Windows and Linux is light years away from it. Krusader is cool-ish, but
they are trying to copy the wrong app.

Thanks for the heads up.